Vive la France
How Ridiculous's admiration of France is well known - at least to How Ridiculous - but news that the Council of Europe is to rap that dear country's human rights record brings to mind Lady Thatcher's commentary about France and human rights during the bicentenary of the French Revolution.
Here is an extract from a French television interview the then Prime Minister gave in July 1989.
'Interviewer: On Friday in Paris you will be celebrating our Revolution. In your view are human rights, which will be very much part of that celebration, are human rights a French invention?
Prime Minister: No, of course they are not, they are far older than that. We had Magna Carta 1215 and human rights were part of Classical Greek.
And of course, if I might say so, even deeper than that the concept of human rights really comes from a mixture of Judaism and Christianity. Those are the only religions which regard the individual as having supreme dignity, being personally accountable and having certain fundamental human rights which no state can take away.
Interviewer: So there is no French leader on human rights.
Prime Minister: Good heavens no, nor do I think France would claim that.
1215 Magna Carta, 17th Century the Bill of Rights here, Parliamentary control here 1688.
No, surely no great civilised country like Europe, which was once the centre of Christendom, which is where your human rights, Christendom and Judaism, the religions which gave sanctity to the individual, dignity, which no government should take away. I hope no-one is going to suggest that those should be ignored.
Interviewer: Do you believe though that the French Revolution still has some sort of universal message?
Prime Minister: No, forgive me for saying so, but no. It heralded an age of terror. Then came Napoleon that started to unite Europe by force.No, the message is the age old message that each human person has certain human rights which no state should take away and which every state should uphold. They are not given by the state, they are much deeper than that.But for France it was a great occasion and so of course because we are great friends of France we come to celebrate with her.'
Just in case the citizens had not got the message, the then Mrs Thatcher gave an interview in Le Monde in which she continued on the same theme.
'Interviewer: There were some suggestions that you were a little bit irritated by this French pretence that human rights began with the French Revolution?
Prime Minister: Human rights did not begin with the French Revolution, that is just what I have been doing on television, and I do not think anyone who knows their religious history or their Greek history would suggest they did.
Your human rights really step from a mixture of Judaism and Christianity. They are the only religions which actually regarded the individual as extremely important, the sanctity of the individual, certain rights of the individual which no government can take away.
Europe was coterminous with Christendom at one time. Look, we had 1215 Magna Carta, much later than Christianity. We had the Bill of Right in the middle of the 17th Century. We had 1689, our silent quiet revolution, where Parliament exerted its will over The King.
We had our quiet celebrations last year and this year, very quiet.
Interviewer: Much quieter than in France.
Prime Minister: Yes, much quieter but then it was not the sort of Revolution that France's was, it was done quietly without the bloodshed.
But human rights did not start with the French Revolution. I do not know anyone who could either go back to Greek history—Antigone for example, you know she goes and says when she wants to claim her brother's body and then the King says no she cannot and she says: “You have no right to deny my brother the right to a proper burial, you have no right”.
Good heavens no, it did not start. Liberty, egality, fraternity; they forgot obligations and duties I think. And then of course it was the fraternity that went missing for a long time. Well, it just did, did it not? It heralded an age of terror.
It has been fascinating and the books that have been written about it. I remember having read there were only seven people in the Bastille the night it was stormed. It was quite an extraordinary thing. But the age of terror that came after that and some of the arguments used—“Oh you have to strike these people down because they will be counter-revolutionaries”. Oh, what familiar language to my generation. “They have to be struck down, murdered”. And not only just the way the terrors were done with people loving to see the torture.
Oh no, it was followed by an age of terror, it was followed by Napoleon who was a remarkable man, perhaps too little revered for his law and his administrative capabilities. But he tried to unite Europe by force and we did not get rid of that until 1815.
So no, it did not begin in France. You go from 1782/83, right up to the final death of Robespierre, oh it was an age of terror, it was an age of terror. But I say what happened to the fraternity?
All of these artificial arguments, I was just reading it again this weekend, “Oh they have to go, we shall get counter-revolution”. Counter-revolution—the language of the communists!
Interviewer: Do you think these celebrations are a little bit over the top?
Prime Minister: No, it is for each country to decide how it celebrates. They had the Eiffel Tower after a hundred years, why should they not have a nice time now?'
Ah, those were the days!
Here is an extract from a French television interview the then Prime Minister gave in July 1989.
'Interviewer: On Friday in Paris you will be celebrating our Revolution. In your view are human rights, which will be very much part of that celebration, are human rights a French invention?
Prime Minister: No, of course they are not, they are far older than that. We had Magna Carta 1215 and human rights were part of Classical Greek.
And of course, if I might say so, even deeper than that the concept of human rights really comes from a mixture of Judaism and Christianity. Those are the only religions which regard the individual as having supreme dignity, being personally accountable and having certain fundamental human rights which no state can take away.
Interviewer: So there is no French leader on human rights.
Prime Minister: Good heavens no, nor do I think France would claim that.
1215 Magna Carta, 17th Century the Bill of Rights here, Parliamentary control here 1688.
No, surely no great civilised country like Europe, which was once the centre of Christendom, which is where your human rights, Christendom and Judaism, the religions which gave sanctity to the individual, dignity, which no government should take away. I hope no-one is going to suggest that those should be ignored.
Interviewer: Do you believe though that the French Revolution still has some sort of universal message?
Prime Minister: No, forgive me for saying so, but no. It heralded an age of terror. Then came Napoleon that started to unite Europe by force.No, the message is the age old message that each human person has certain human rights which no state should take away and which every state should uphold. They are not given by the state, they are much deeper than that.But for France it was a great occasion and so of course because we are great friends of France we come to celebrate with her.'
Just in case the citizens had not got the message, the then Mrs Thatcher gave an interview in Le Monde in which she continued on the same theme.
'Interviewer: There were some suggestions that you were a little bit irritated by this French pretence that human rights began with the French Revolution?
Prime Minister: Human rights did not begin with the French Revolution, that is just what I have been doing on television, and I do not think anyone who knows their religious history or their Greek history would suggest they did.
Your human rights really step from a mixture of Judaism and Christianity. They are the only religions which actually regarded the individual as extremely important, the sanctity of the individual, certain rights of the individual which no government can take away.
Europe was coterminous with Christendom at one time. Look, we had 1215 Magna Carta, much later than Christianity. We had the Bill of Right in the middle of the 17th Century. We had 1689, our silent quiet revolution, where Parliament exerted its will over The King.
We had our quiet celebrations last year and this year, very quiet.
Interviewer: Much quieter than in France.
Prime Minister: Yes, much quieter but then it was not the sort of Revolution that France's was, it was done quietly without the bloodshed.
But human rights did not start with the French Revolution. I do not know anyone who could either go back to Greek history—Antigone for example, you know she goes and says when she wants to claim her brother's body and then the King says no she cannot and she says: “You have no right to deny my brother the right to a proper burial, you have no right”.
Good heavens no, it did not start. Liberty, egality, fraternity; they forgot obligations and duties I think. And then of course it was the fraternity that went missing for a long time. Well, it just did, did it not? It heralded an age of terror.
It has been fascinating and the books that have been written about it. I remember having read there were only seven people in the Bastille the night it was stormed. It was quite an extraordinary thing. But the age of terror that came after that and some of the arguments used—“Oh you have to strike these people down because they will be counter-revolutionaries”. Oh, what familiar language to my generation. “They have to be struck down, murdered”. And not only just the way the terrors were done with people loving to see the torture.
Oh no, it was followed by an age of terror, it was followed by Napoleon who was a remarkable man, perhaps too little revered for his law and his administrative capabilities. But he tried to unite Europe by force and we did not get rid of that until 1815.
So no, it did not begin in France. You go from 1782/83, right up to the final death of Robespierre, oh it was an age of terror, it was an age of terror. But I say what happened to the fraternity?
All of these artificial arguments, I was just reading it again this weekend, “Oh they have to go, we shall get counter-revolution”. Counter-revolution—the language of the communists!
Interviewer: Do you think these celebrations are a little bit over the top?
Prime Minister: No, it is for each country to decide how it celebrates. They had the Eiffel Tower after a hundred years, why should they not have a nice time now?'
Ah, those were the days!
posted by HowRidiculous @ 4:26 PM
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